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ehowton ([personal profile] ehowton) wrote2011-11-12 09:15 pm
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Seducing Fate


I've never been one to kneel before the Fates. They can can commit incestuous lascivious acts amongst themselves as far as I'm concerned. I think - therefore I am. However, as a non-passive reasoning empiricist, I must at all times seemingly tempt those apportioners of destiny. Were I to believe that [an action that presupposes a good outcome leads to anticipated regret and therefore draws attention disproportionally to the negative outcome. The negative outcome then seems more likely because it is more available.]1 But I don't. Because I don't, I find myself oddly comfortable with the older belief systems which do not promote original sin as a guilt. For I find that after the analytical phase of my empirical experiments, I am afforded logical and emotional directives which fully justify actions which others may find morally dubious. That being said, I rarely experience guilt, or regret.


This then begs the question - are only those who believe in the Fates subjugated to them? It amuses me that Messianic Jews can disprove the Christian trinity while simultaneously proving that much older trinities are "false" whether we're talking about the Maiden, the Mother, and the Crone or the eons-old "sacred three" as in the number of maiden Fates.2 But just as in the approximately six billion interpretations of the bible, what if I'm wrong about 'tempting' the Fates as far as presupposing favorable outcome, and have been instead of guilty of enticing them to morally ambiguous deviancy for my own gratification? Is my intent on trial here, or merely my actions? Where does one draw the line? The letter of the law is far easier to police than the spirit of the law, yet some mythologies have compensated for that loophole by eternally damning sinful thoughts alone, with or without action. Others not so much.


Thankfully, those who do not acknowledge such limitations are not bound by them. And as practicality (among other things) would prevent me from being a full-time practicing hedonist, much as singular wytches operating outside a communal coven consider themselves solitary, so then should I consider myself something of a spiritual sensualist - that which has no application outside my mind and my thoughts. I refuse to pay lip service to something woefully inadequate and instead shall revel in my own mental sensualism. For when all is said and done, I haven't done a thing - except to refuse to be bound by convention.

Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real? ~ Dumbledore

I have no convictions whatsoever, save one - challenging my own beliefs rigorously in case I need to modify them; apply new knowledge to them, which by definition is anti-conviction; fluidity. I proclaim adaptability is far more sustaining that conviction in every scenario I run, for in order to effectively run them I must absolutely consider that which I most despise as a viable alternative else it would nullify any outcome as incomplete. For those who only predict future possibilities based upon past performance I promise you will absolutely reap everything which thou sew. And I make so few promises these days.


I'm bedding the Fates - all of them. For my future is my own to foresee, and I alone will be responsible for my successes and failures. By my hands alone will I rise up, and sometimes fail, and what I learn from those failures will be invaluable. So if tempting the Fates, seducing them, is something which should not be done, then it is by my own actions that I do so, and will face the consequences of such head-on. I will not cower in fear at what may be, or what the future may hold, I will define it! And if that definition includes playing with fire - tempting Fate and sleeping with her sisters - so be it. To date, my life has been one magnificent experience after another. Even the few times its kinda sucked. Why? Because I've learned from it - and isn't that the point of living?


And if not - Spiritual Sensualism means you get to bang the Fates anyway. When I kneel before them now, its for an entirely different reason.



1 - Risen and Gilovich (2008)
2 - "Maiden, mother, crone: the myth and reality of the triple goddess" By D. J. Conway, pgs 3, 189

[identity profile] michelle1963.livejournal.com 2011-11-13 04:06 pm (UTC)(link)
The letter of the law is far easier to police than the spirit of the law, yet some mythologies have compensated for that loophole by eternally damning sinful thoughts alone, with or without action. Others not so much.

There is just so much wrong with the premise that thoughts have the same significance as action. First, on a practical level, how many people have been so angry as to wish someone dead? And yet to the object of their enmity, there is a freaking far cry from merely wishing it in the heat of anger, and actually killing the person.

Secondly, Taoists would say, how can you know the light if you do not know the dark? So you're supposed to think only "good" thoughts, eh? How do you know they're good? How can you measure their goodness, if you do not delve into the nature of what is deemed bad? (Of course, how each individual defines what is good and bad is somewhat different.)



[identity profile] ehowton.livejournal.com 2011-11-13 09:22 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't at all mind discussions detailing individual mores versus ethical behavior - its that exact communication which helps us better understand one another. But do not hold me accountable to your own system and automatically discount mine, which may be far more robust than the one which is trying me.

The Taoists sound like smart fellas.

[identity profile] michelle1963.livejournal.com 2011-11-13 09:55 pm (UTC)(link)
But do not hold me accountable to your own system and automatically discount mine, which may be far more robust than the one which is trying me.

It is an odd characteristic of the close-minded: demand respect for their own point of view, and give no credence to anyone else's. Makes it tough to have an enlightened discussion under those circumstances.

[identity profile] michelle1963.livejournal.com 2011-11-13 04:22 pm (UTC)(link)
I have no convictions whatsoever, save one - challenging my own beliefs rigorously in case I need to modify them; apply new knowledge to them, which by definition is anti-conviction; fluidity.

I've always wondered how a person decides when s/he is going to stop learning, growing. "Yep, I know enough now. Not going to add to it. Not going to change." WTF is up with that?

Granted the ideas regarding ethics, etc. do not undergo as many changes as they did when I was younger. Experience is a great teacher. But even now, I learn things that cause my basic core principles to be at least tweaked.

Often that involves realizing the core principle works well in daily living, but when faced with situations outside the norm that hadn't been previously experienced, I have found some of these core principles wanting. Kind of like a sailboat made to sail in under an aqua sky, but not built for a storm. Yeah, the sailboat may survive the storm, but she isn't going to be in the same shape she was before.

[identity profile] ehowton.livejournal.com 2011-11-13 05:22 pm (UTC)(link)
I've always wondered how a person decides when s/he is going to stop learning, growing...WTF is up with that?

In my humble experience its when it becomes too difficult. Some want to only face easy challenges or none at all. And who can blame them, really? While some of us are programmed to test the limits of ourselves for the purpose of creating new, working realities, others are equipped to ensure the machine as a whole stays well-oiled by cheerfully repeating rote tasks ad nauseum. And while I don't begrudge them their task, I find that they're often begrudging me mine.

[identity profile] michelle1963.livejournal.com 2011-11-13 07:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, I know what you mean. The fact that you (and I) do not adhere to simple, specific concepts is viewed as a lack of strength in character, with the implication being that we are not as principled. I refute that mindset. Because I do treat each situation individually, rather than applying a rote formula, my actions are often more principled / sympathetic than those who rely on a set in concrete concept.

In my experience, those who do not seek out growth often find it thrust upon them at some point as the world does not care about their contentment with just good enough.


[identity profile] ehowton.livejournal.com 2011-11-13 09:32 pm (UTC)(link)
And I am unconcerned with those who find life thrust upon them. Slow and steady or baptism by fire, its going to happen regardless and most of them know it to be so. Why they chose to act or react is not my responsibility. But you're right about life being blind toward their personal beliefs on the matter. Even those who abhor the law of gravity are still bound by its rules :/

[identity profile] michelle1963.livejournal.com 2011-11-13 10:02 pm (UTC)(link)
Exactly! I have had conversations with many people who when told the facts of a situation, keep arguing as though if they could just deny enough, whine enough, express their discomfort enough, that the facts would change.

[identity profile] pcofwildthings.livejournal.com 2011-11-13 05:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Maybe the Fates have always wanted to bang a (different) drummer.

[identity profile] ehowton.livejournal.com 2011-11-13 09:20 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes of course! As far as I can tell the Fates are agnostic theists - surely they too desire to swim the warm waters of sins of the flesh from time to time.

[identity profile] michelle1963.livejournal.com 2011-11-13 10:09 pm (UTC)(link)
LOL! I love it!

[identity profile] codekitten.livejournal.com 2011-11-13 09:21 pm (UTC)(link)
"Is my intent on trial here, or merely my actions?... eternally damning sinful thoughts alone, with or without action"
man i'd be in trouble if it was my intent or thoughts!

"When I kneel before them now, its for an entirely different reason."
ha! love it!

[identity profile] ehowton.livejournal.com 2011-11-13 09:27 pm (UTC)(link)
And its sharing those thoughts without repercussion I find so freeing. Then again, I've decided my id and super-ego are on speaking terms, which makes my life a downright joy most of the time.

[identity profile] codekitten.livejournal.com 2011-11-13 09:50 pm (UTC)(link)
that *does* make life easier.

[identity profile] michelle1963.livejournal.com 2011-11-13 10:05 pm (UTC)(link)
Then again, I've decided my id and super-ego are on speaking terms, which makes my life a downright joy most of the time.

I'd say that's the basic definition of well adjusted.

[identity profile] ehowton.livejournal.com 2011-11-13 10:19 pm (UTC)(link)
I'd say that's the basic definition of well adjusted.

If its that easy, why then isn't everyone doing it?

[identity profile] michelle1963.livejournal.com 2011-11-13 10:54 pm (UTC)(link)
Because they're not INTJ's?

First off, much id-driven thought is highly sexual. Most religion, and the dominant culture overlaying the religious ideas, preach that reveling in sex and its myriad manifestations is evil. Why? I don't know. Unless you're a serial killer who gets off sexually by torturing people, sex should be seen as a gift from the Gods.

But western society has managed to make people feel guilt over just the standard sex act, so anything that strays somewhat, often invokes extreme guilt. This makes people shy away from looking into their id. They are afraid of what they might find.

Me? I've looked into mine, studied what's there. I have no desire to torture small animals. I don't have any secret longing to dominate or rule the world. The rest can be summed up as blatantly sensual, highly erotic sexuality. Nothing that would harm anyone (in fact, actually quite the opposite :D).

My id does not scare me, it doesn't make me feel guilt. It's not going to drive me to act out of character.

However, I know of a man that made the statement, if it weren't for my belief in God, I'd be a terrible person. Is this what his religion taught him? Has he been brainwashed to believe this? Or is God truly the only thing standing between him and being a rapist, a child molester, a drunken loser who beats his wife? I don't know. I guess if you're id is full of ugly things, then indeed it might be a scary place that could prevent a good relationship with the superego.





[identity profile] ehowton.livejournal.com 2011-11-13 11:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you. That's beautiful.

Oh-ho! Motherfucking Puritans and their "His will be done" bullshit. (http://ehowton.livejournal.com/360838.html) Or not! :P

[identity profile] michelle1963.livejournal.com 2011-11-14 12:36 am (UTC)(link)
:D I remember when we wrote that post together. It certainly bears re-reading!

[identity profile] michelle1963.livejournal.com 2011-11-14 01:11 am (UTC)(link)
Btw, when you referenced the post, "Fate", did you take time to re-read the comments? Particularly Dentin's? While enlightening at the time, from the current vantage point, they seem even more applicable.

[identity profile] ehowton.livejournal.com 2011-11-14 01:44 am (UTC)(link)
Well of course! That's the thread where I finally understood that While some of us are programmed to test the limits of ourselves for the purpose of creating new, working realities, others are equipped to ensure the machine as a whole stays well-oiled by cheerfully repeating rote tasks ad nauseum.

Fascinating that it comes up again and again!

[identity profile] michelle1963.livejournal.com 2011-11-13 10:07 pm (UTC)(link)
man i'd be in trouble if it was my intent or thoughts!

You, me, everyone on the whole freaking planet. :-)

Very cool avatar, btw!

[identity profile] codekitten.livejournal.com 2011-11-13 10:16 pm (UTC)(link)
tell me about it!

thank you...she seems applicable to this post :)

[identity profile] codekitten.livejournal.com 2011-11-14 02:12 am (UTC)(link)
hopefully it's ok with you...i've added you as a friend...

[identity profile] michelle1963.livejournal.com 2011-11-14 02:33 am (UTC)(link)
Absolutely! And now I've added you. :-)

[identity profile] ehowton.livejournal.com 2011-11-13 10:22 pm (UTC)(link)
Living in sin, with sin, by sin, for sin, every hour, every day, year in, year out. Waking up with sin in the morning, seeing the curtains drawn on sin, bathing it, dressing it, clipping diamonds to it, feeding it, showing it round, giving it a good time, putting it to sleep at night with a tablet of Dial if it's fretful. Always the same, like an idiot child carefully nursed, guarded from the world. 'Poor Julia,' they say, 'she can't go out. She's got to take care of her little sin. A pity it ever lived,' they say, 'but it's so strong. Children like that always are. Julia's so good to her little, mad sin.’ - Julia Flyte in Evelyn Waugh's "Brideshead Revisited"

[identity profile] codekitten.livejournal.com 2011-11-14 07:42 pm (UTC)(link)
wow that's a fantastic quote...especially showing how it can be relentless...

[identity profile] ehowton.livejournal.com 2011-11-14 07:57 pm (UTC)(link)
I found it on the wikipedia page on CATHOLIC GUILT :P

[identity profile] codekitten.livejournal.com 2011-11-14 07:59 pm (UTC)(link)
THANK GOD I'M NOT CATHOLIC! :P

Test, just a test

(Anonymous) 2011-11-14 06:06 am (UTC)(link)
This page about poetry is amazingly exuberant... I cherish poetry... An other page i visit a bucket load is called famous myownverse poetry ..

Re: Test, just a test

[identity profile] ehowton.livejournal.com 2011-11-14 07:57 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm a lyrical GENIUS!